Oregon Education Among Very Worst in the Nation
The results are in and Oregon is one of only 5 states in the nation to receive a D overall grade across all areas measured in the Education Week’s Quality Counts report just released.I must ask, though, how can this be? Our teacher salaries are good, the teachers’ union is firmly in control, the Democrat politicians keep pouring more and more money into the education budget, and the experts in the state department of education tell us they know what they are doing. I wonder, though, given our national ranking…
Here’s a summary of how Oregon is performing in education from the Education Week Magazine annual survey of education in America:
1. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for Kindergarten enrollment (rank 50).
2. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for adults in the labor force working full time and year-round, a measurement of the outcome of the education system (rank 50).
3. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for 4th grade math achievement gains (rank 50).
4. Oregon is the second worst state in the nation for 4th grade reading achievement (rank 49)
5. Forty-seven states have early-learning standards – Oregon has none.
6. Oregon does not define college readiness or college preparation.
7. Oregon has no path for industry certification while 40 other states do.
8. Oregon has no requirement for licensing teachers that includes substantial coursework completion in the subject area to be taught. Twenty-seven other states do.
9. Oregon has no test of subject-specific knowledge in order to obtain a teaching license. Forty-two other states do.
10. Oregon does not require formal annual evaluations of all teachers’ performance. Forty-three other states do.
11. Oregon does not publish rankings or results for our teacher-preparation institutions. Thirty other states do.
12. Oregon does not offer an alternative-route program for teacher preparation. Forty-seven other states do.
13. Oregon does not provide incentives for teachers to earn national board certification. Thirty-eight other states do.
14. Oregon does not provide a mentoring program for new teachers. Twenty other states do.
15. Oregon does not provide a mentoring program for administrators. Fourteen other states do.
In short, Oregon is one of only five states in the nation to receive a D grade. What could possibly have gone wrong?
You can read the full report at www.edweek.org.
1. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for Kindergarten enrollment (rank 50).
2. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for adults in the labor force working full time and year-round, a measurement of the outcome of the education system (rank 50).
3. Oregon is the worst state in the nation for 4th grade math achievement gains (rank 50).
4. Oregon is the second worst state in the nation for 4th grade reading achievement (rank 49)
5. Forty-seven states have early-learning standards – Oregon has none.
6. Oregon does not define college readiness or college preparation.
7. Oregon has no path for industry certification while 40 other states do.
8. Oregon has no requirement for licensing teachers that includes substantial coursework completion in the subject area to be taught. Twenty-seven other states do.
9. Oregon has no test of subject-specific knowledge in order to obtain a teaching license. Forty-two other states do.
10. Oregon does not require formal annual evaluations of all teachers’ performance. Forty-three other states do.
11. Oregon does not publish rankings or results for our teacher-preparation institutions. Thirty other states do.
12. Oregon does not offer an alternative-route program for teacher preparation. Forty-seven other states do.
13. Oregon does not provide incentives for teachers to earn national board certification. Thirty-eight other states do.
14. Oregon does not provide a mentoring program for new teachers. Twenty other states do.
15. Oregon does not provide a mentoring program for administrators. Fourteen other states do.
In short, Oregon is one of only five states in the nation to receive a D grade. What could possibly have gone wrong?
You can read the full report at www.edweek.org.
No state got an A grade. The benchmarks are simply steps that are considered necessary to a stong public education system. I agree that some might seem bureaucratic but the ones that really matter, like the fourth grade test scores, are simply inexcusable when you consider the costs expended for such "results".
I am deeply saddened for Oregon and the state of affairs in its public education system.
None of this is rocket science. Oregon simply has chosen not to do what is needed to ensure a quality education. If it had, then we would not be ranked 49th out of 50 states!!!
Read the report.
It's too bad that our schools which are supposed to be learning centers are concentrating on entertaining the kids instead.
This is such a loss, Oregon's kids are the losers as a group. There are good kids, smart kids and kids that excel in spite of the system. I'm not talking about them. But just look around you.
The National Education Association, SEIU gov't workers' union et. al. have run huge sums of money into Oregon from out-of-state in order to secure political control of education in Oregon. Of course, all the News Guild writers black this out completely and parrot your line of B.S. with alarming irresponsibility.
These unreported ("non-political") sums of union money from out-of-state, expended year-after-year at the local and state level, DWARF the reported political campaign spending for the every-other-year initiatives. And the unions ALWAYS outspend initiative proponents during actual campaigns.
Why can't unionists take some responsibility for the collectivist mess of their own making? It's so GWB to blindly refuse to admit obvious mistakes.
Yes lets give credit for the schools ranking with Mississippi and West Virginia!
Democrat Legislators, the unions, Vera Katz, John Kitzhaber, Norma Paulus, COSA, OSBA, ODE, Oregon Business Council, Oregon Business Association and our newspapers.
All of whom supported and perpetuated the coslty 15 year failed school reform CIMCAM.
They shamelessly championed this sweeping failure with a parade of lies and politics for the sole purpoose of maintaining control and power. They are despicable.
And not all the money in the state would have changed the outcome. The massive program was flawed through and through without any merit but what was fabricated by these despicable people.
Multiply that number with the average class size, let's say 25, and you get $250,000 per classroom per year. Are teachers getting $200,000 a year or something?
There's no excuse for our crappy grade with that kind of funding.
Ever since the cost of education has soared while the product plummeted.
All the while teacher's unions calling anyone who crticizes them anti-teacher.
Despicable.
A mentoring program for administrators? Incentives for board certification? These don't seem all that crucial in the scheme of things. What about class sizes, dropout rates, SAT scores, percent going on to and finishing college, and other measures of actual importance?
I'm assuming teachers are unionized in most states, so unionization may not be any factor at all.
If you read the whole report you will find that Oregon finished 49th out of the 50 states. I am not sure I could make it sound much worse than that. To make such a statement seems clear evidence to me that you never even read the entire report. Why don't you do that and then let us know what you think? Wait, I know why, because it wouldn't matter to you what the report says - you just blindly defend incompetence and ask for more money to continue it. Good analysis.
Incentives for board certification don't mean much to you because you don't understand the need for mastery in subject matter taught, which the board certification ensures. Apparently you like Oregon's system where no test is ever given for subject matter mastery and no preponderance of coursework completed needs to be in the specific subject area of teaching. Just curious, would you go to a surgeon who had a lot of courses in medical theory, but none in actually operating? I guess maybe you would.
To say unionization may not be a factor at all is stunning in that you pointed out no state got an A. Maybe it is the biggest factor. You certainly don't know, so why make such a senseless statement?
I suggest a bit more research and thought on your part prior to posting.
The Districts like David Douglas have a fair benefit package and also are the districts people move their kids to.....go figure!
Go instead to the National Assessment of Education Progress
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/
and go to "state comparisons". There is no way that Oregon is 49th in reading for fourth graders.
You'll find that Oregon is a little below average for 4th graders -- not surprising given the large class sizes here -- but is above average for 8th graders, which arguably is more important.
Amazing.
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/01/10/18shr.h27.html
In fourth grade reading in 2007 according to NAEP scores Oregon is 38th in the nation. For fourth grade reading change, however, from 2003- 2007, we are 49th in the nation.
You actually have to read the report before you make accusations about what is reported.
I have given you the link, Now, if you can, choose Oregon under the state drop down menu, download the report, and read it.
I am guessing maybe you went to school in Oregon...
Why didn't you toss out here the SAT lie? That Oregon is Tops or second in the country"
Is that bald faced lie cooked up by the ODE and OEA not flying any more?
What a couple of nitwits excuse makers.
Have you a good one for CIMCAM wasting 15 years, countless instructions hours and likely billions?
The fact is, the headline for the article is "Oregon education among very worst in the nation". And the fact is, unless you take very very selective data, the claim is just not true. It's nonsense.
I strongly suggest you read the entire summary of Oregon and the articles they provide on the site that clearly show how they arrived at the scores, their methodology, etc.
I feel sorry for people who can't take an objective look at the facts. You don't hear anyone from the education community attacking Education Week, do you? No, of course not, because they don't want to draw ANY attention to the ranking or the article.
I must say, too, I never called you names like you called me. I was simply surprised that anyone could not go to the home page of Education Week and find the relevant articles. They are all right there!!! Unless maybe you did not want to, as then you would not have to actually read them and face the reality.
Very good article. More discussion on this topic is needed.
The Union apologists on this forum should not have a knee jerk reaction (and rejection), but rather should come back with real evidence of how great our schools really are.
Jerry does appear to be an informed insider with real experience inside Oregon High Schools. And also one who is willing to actually ask the hard questions, instead of just ignore the plight of school kids, and kowtow to the Teachers Union, while waiting for their PERS checks to roll in.
So Oregon has exchanged high individual K-12 employee compensation for large class sizes, very short school years, deferred maintenance and curtailed programs. The explanation is simple. Oregon's collective bargaining laws (only one of 12 states that allow teachers to strike) rammed through by a young labor attorney, Ted Kulongoski, are tilted in favor of Oregon's education unions. Volunteer school boards are no match for the collective power of Oregon's education unions. Oregon is now suffering the results of an orchestrated plan.
Maybe the better solution all around is to get serious about consolodating school districts and give up on local control. There is an interesting article in Atlantic Magazine about this. We could seriously reduce administrative costs and professionalize our boards by phasing out small districts....mabye ALL districts. Make it a state run service.
Sad to report one Union President, during negotiations, bluntly stated he was not concerned about teachers who might be laid off in a down turn, since his seniority would protect him. Totally focused on ROI for the highly compensated part of the salary structure. His view, better to have fewer teachers who made more $$, than have more teachers (and thus lower class sizes) who made slightly less. What was unstated was that if you reduce class size, you take away the thorn in the public's side that keeps them feeding more tax dollars for schools (ie It's for the kids!)
Lower class sizes are the best indicator (other than family income) of success for the child. Not higher compensation for the senior teachers.
That's just the view I get from the local School Board side of things. Totally outmatched by the Union dominated scheme that is the current state of school affairs in Oregon.
Maybe a different question:
How do we improve the existing K-12 schools given the status quo is the Unions have all the power?
Easy, just fire all the teachers, and rehire 'em at half salary!! LOL, just kidding (and no, my name isn't Ron S.)
A great question, and a hard one to answer.
1-Work with the Union, not against them. (Don't do what Saxton talked about doing re: firing.)
2- Use a credible org like Chalkboard to try and reason with them with real data, even as they resist the most benign reforms.
3-Reward excellence in Teachers (note: I did not say 'pay for performance'; but excellent teachers should get rewarded, and non-performers should NOT get the same pay as the very best teachers)
4-Create more mechanisms for changing schools, ie more choices.
5-Create more accountability and fiscal discipline.
6-Line up the parents/voters interests versus the Union intersests; show that when forced to choose, they choose teachers over kids.
(I just now saw Debbie Smith's reply, which says similar things)
I think you are right, work with the unions, because for the foreseeable future in Oregon there is no alternative.
It is going to take either a governor with some backbone and the right spirit, or else some brave school districts to get the union to bend at all. I don't see much chance of either right now. The Republicans don't seem able to come up with anyone electable. If anything changes, it will probably be a Democrat who does it, sort of like Kulongoski did with PERS.
1. Establish a national test to measure student progress more accurately;
2. Raise compensation levels for high-quality teachers, especially in the areas of science, math and Special Education;
3. Provide better information on school performance to parents;
4. Eliminate district boundaries between schools allowing parents to choose the right school for their children, regardless of where they live;
5. Allow greater flexibility for schools to hire and fire teachers;
6. Make school funding more transparent by attaching education dollars to the student instead of the school district.
For more information on public school reform, visit www.paths2choice.com.
The fact is this article used the same data and measurements for every state.
It is you and yours who seek to misrepresent and mislead with very selective data. Or invoking the large class size canards.
You haven't an honest bone in your body if you can't acknowledge the horrific job our union and Democrat dominated education establishment has done here in Oregon.
The constant meddling and wasteful programs forever distracting our students and fine teachers has resulted in Oregon not even keeping pace with the national average trend.
Let alone providing the "World Class" education these clowns forever claim with their reforms. They can't even honestly track what they do to prevent lenthy and more harmful misdirection.
In some cases it's been nearly pure insanity by some of your Democrats staples.
Steve Novick in particular showed up at every oppotunity to defend CIM CAM and the etsablishment pushing it.
To quote Novick's brilliance "They [Opponets] want to turn over the testing of our student to big fat evil corporations".
How about State Legislator Mary Nolan (D) who at a hearing over a bill to repeal CIMCAM was so impressed with the propaganda from the establishment aksed, "Have you considered pattening this and selling it to other states?"
How about the OBC (Oregon Business Council) lapdogs for the government establishment Oregon Department of Ed/COSA/OEA and OSBA, who put together a 2001 "white paper" touting CIMCAM as working. A bigger load of bull there has seldom been.
There's been MANY red flags during the past 16 years of reform and meddling by your pals. All of which pointed towards our system floundering and students paying the price.
All we got was the same BS you trot out now.
Look at the NAEP data to which I posted the link. (The article here didn't even manage to post the link correctly to the Education Week article.) The NAEP data clearly show that Oregon school performance is middling -- a little below average for 4th graders, a little above for 8th graders. Not stellar, but not among the "very worst".
The poster "Bailie" has it about right.
It takes a very selective use of data to come to the "very worst" conclusion. Only people who are determined to see the worst, out of their hatred for the public schools, will see it the way this article does.
Also makes research easy. I suggest: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/pdf/c08.pdf for the latest on math and science education rankings from the National Science Foundation (warning, these crazy liberals also think global warming and evolution are for real, so who could trust them on science education?)
A glance through the tables says Oregon tends to fall in the 2nd quartile (upper half) on most measures, including teachers salaries and education funding. Looks like we get what we pay for, which is a bit above mediocrity.
Some states have very low teacher salaries with very high student performance: Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, and South Dakota (though these are also low cost states to live in). Others have high pay and relatively low performance: California, Illinois, Washington DC. (high cost of living). More often, it appears that pay and spending do matter, with the southern, Republican "base" states holding up the bottom on teacher salaries, school spending, and not surprisingly, performance, and northern liberal, Democratic base states spending a lot and getting good results (Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Michigan).
Based on the National Science Foundation report, I would say Jerry's original post is hot air. Relax everyone...we are above average after all, unions or no unions.
----------
LOL
Is that your summary, dean?
Did you read this link? (http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/01/10/18shr.h27.html)
Or did you just change the subject to the nsf data?
Hello, dean?
Stawman? Or Change the Subject?
What does dean have to say re: eagle eye's posts?
As for the CIM/CAM issue Betsy is Bashing, I'm agnostic on it. It may have been a well intentioned way to shift to outcomes based education, but it was never fully funded or embraced, and now it has been mostly dropped. I agree it has been a failed effort. We could have NOT tried it and still failed.
I have no stake with teacher unions (other than an ex-wife who is a teacher,) but it seems to me that "conservatives" are so hell bent on breaking the Oregon teacher's unions that they are reflexively opposed to any meaningful effort to improve education (other than abandoning public schools altogether) and will blame the unions for every failing. Breaking the unions is a goal you have little chance of ever acheiving, but hey...its a free country. Knock yourselves out.
Both you and eagle need to read the entire report at Education Week before you make such silly statements.
You want to compare Oregon's NAEP scores, of which I am abundantly familiar with, location with the education weekly's measurements to show that the lower on eis wrong and Oregon is really mediocre?
Wow that's quite the impressive waltz.
Typical method used by CIMCAM defenders.
Quite evasive too.
Oregon just finished going through the most extensive re-shaping of our education system in Oregony history. For nothing. It wasted student education, time, teachers efforts and billions.
The purpose was not to stagnate with a lower performance trend than the national average trend. Or to perpetuate mediocrity. We could have done that without the School Reform For the 21st Century your democrat establishment abused our schools with.
It was intended, promised, forecasted, and even guaranteed to create "World Class Standards" and improvement.
All sorts of fabricated justifiacations and excuses ushered along the imiplementation.
Today remnants remaninbut other monumental fabrications linger.
Such as the totally fabricated Quality Education Model which promises, without any basis that, 95% of students will meet benchmarks with an additional 2 billion per bienium spent on K-12.
One thing is for sure. Had Education Weekly contradicted the NAEP and placed Oregon near the top you, and the etsablishment would have been touting it as reliable. And it would have found it's way on the front page of the Oregonian.
Just so you'll know, I've never thought much of cim/cam, or the so-called quality education model, I'm not part of the "democrat establishment", in fact I'm a registered Republican, voted for Republicans for President through many election cycles, even when they've made it tough to do so.
I do say the data -- NAEP results or see the NSF report mentioned by dean -- show that Oregon schools are not among the "very worst". They're middling -- not the best, not the worst.
Most people in Oregon know this, know they're schools are not down there with Mississippi or West Virginia. And so crazy talk like this article about them being at the bottom turn most people away, turn away people who might well be concerned about the schools and desirous of being something better than "middling".
That is fact. If you chose to ignore it, fine, but don't say it is not true.
The fact is, for the last time, Oregon 4th graders are a little below average at their grade level and 8th graders are above average. (I would much rather have it that way than the other way around.) And any honest look at student performance says that Oregon is somewhere in the middle -- not "among the very worst in the nation".
If your morbid public school hating, government hating worldview compels you to believe that Oregon is that terrible, that's your problem. Most normal people have other things on their mind.
There is no cherry picking of the overall summary of the Education Week report. In that OVERALL summary Oregon finished 49th out of 50 states. That takes EVERYTHING into account. All grades, all subjects, all tests, teacher salaries, state policies, etc., etc. That is what you don't seem to either understand or be willing to accept. I never even mentioned the fact that Oregon was 49th in the nation in my original article. If I was trying to cherry pick I certainly would have. 49th is not a very strong showing.
To say someone hates Oregon schools because they pointed out the results of a nationwide, unbiased, non-political report that measured all states using the same criteria speaks much more about you and your judgment than mine.
Go to the link you gave
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/01/10/18shr.h27.html
click on "Oregon" in the states list.
Go to p. 6 (of 15).
You'll find some data in which Oregon is indeed 49, others where Oregon looks very good.
Cherry picking is what the author has done.
There is no way that Oregon schools are "among the very worst". No way.
Can't change that fact.
So we are doing some good things - I guess - at least better than one other state.
Nice.
Now I feel better. Oregon at 49th looks great. Maybe we should have a party.
Has anyone noticed that NO ONE from the teachers' union, the state department of ed, the Oregon School Boards Association, no administrator, no teacher, no student, NO ONE has publicly addressed the 49th ranking of Oregon nationally. NOT ONE.
I wonder why....??
I'm glad to see that Oregon 8th graders are doing pretty well on national tests. I hope older students are doing even better. It's of some concern that 4th graders are a little under par. None of this is surprising: I might expect it given the large class sizes for the 4th graders, the high teacher pay which might just translate into better teachers for the older students.
There are six main categories, and Oregon does fairly well in three of them. The ones in which it doesn’t perform “up to par†are those relating to state politics, state administration of schools, state educational policy, and, in a couple of cases, the way resources are allocated within schools and districts.
In the “Schooling Years†indicators (the only ones over which the schools have any, even indirect, responsibility, Oregon ranks tied for 33rd. The “State Achievement Indicators†show Oregon last in only one category – and that concerns reading gap between students who are and are not eligible for free/reduced lunch programs. In other words, it’s more of an indicator of poverty than of achievement.
The EPE’s “Achievement Index,†based on three factors: 1) current levels of performance; 2) improvements over time; and 3) and equity between poor/nonpoor students, ranks Oregon 39th. However, it ranks 30th based on current performance, which would seem to be the most important standard.
On the state report, Oregon scores right around the national average (which is fairly low) in most categories. Its achievement measures bounce around from near the top (improvement in graduation rates; 8th grade reading) to near the bottom (4th grade math and reading; gaps between poor/nonpoor).
Where Oregon falls down is in areas relating to educational infrastructure, such as content of teacher preparation programs, teacher support, alignment between curriculum standards and curriculum content, and barriers to entry for teachers. It hasn’t adopted several of EPE’s “Salary and Incentive†measures, some of which are rather political and not tied in any discernible way to teaching performance. Some of its low marks are tied to educational funding: a lack of state-financed professional development, class sizes, and working conditions within schools.
Oregon’s total score on all measures is 411.7, or an average of 68.6. The state is low (and is graded down by EPE) on below average spending per student, and other measures of per-pupil spending. If one eliminates the measures over which K-12 schools have little or no control, the state would rank at or slightly below the median. That’s not great. But it’s not nearly as bad as the author of this piece paints it. In fact, someone could take this set of data and make a very good case for the proposition that increasing per-student spending and providing additional resources to teachers and schools would dramatically improve its “grade†according to EPE.
They must be part of the ed establishment. As customers of that enterprise it is my hope parents and students will begin to question what is going on in Oregon education that could allow us to fall so far so fast. When bad news hits it is ALWAYS the messenger. Did you notice the attacks on me and Education Week??? But nothing on the people who got us the 49th ranking. Interesting.
Those who are critical of my article also never mention many other aspects of the report which I did not. Things like drop out rate, percentage of education money not spent in the classroom, number of test items that are multiple choice, etc., etc. Trust me - Oregon did not fare well in those areas, either. Not at all.
Thank you, though, for your statement. As long as some people learn about the report, read it, and understand just how bad things are in Oregon my article will have been a good thing. Some of the energy expended here defending a failed system might even be put to use improving it.
http://www.edweek.org/media/ew/qc/2006/17shr.or.h25.pdf
Hundreds of millions were spent on reinventing the wheel (such as writing new learning objectives). If the resources spent on this misguided effort had been directed at sharpening instructional practices, providing additional aides to help students having trouble understanding subject matter, and investments in educational technology, our students would currently be performing much better.
In fact as they defended the later efforts to dump CIMCAM they even put together propaganda claiming the reform didn't cost much and the Bend LaPine Super testified it saved money.
Among other manipulations the COSA survey to determine cost told districts to NOT included any teacher time.
The whole mess has been covered up and forgotten as they work on their next meddling baffoonery. All the while focusing on the number one goal.
Keeping control.
Had the millions wasted been spent on only reading improvements Oregon averages would be far above where they are now.
But the meddlers think BIG.
There is no doubt that an essentially white, middle-class state with decent levels of educational spending should perform better. However, you can't solve a problem by ignoring some aspects and overemphasizing others. Identifying the deficiencies, determining what is wrong, and looking at what can realistically be done to improve things are the first steps to improvement.
One of the problems with education is that everyone thinks they're an expert. And the longer it's been since they've been in a school, the more their expertise grows.
In short, if you rank 49th out of 50, there is not a lot of good to take a look at. You don't concentrate on a couple areas where you came in somewhere in the middle. You fix the areas where you came in last or next to last and in doing so maybe fix the other rankings as well. In order to succeed you MUST focus on the problem areas. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is necessary in order to improve.
I also never said I was an expert, but with 19 years in the classroom actually teaching I think I might know a couple things. What are your credentials?
Well put, Jerry.
Jerry...as a non expert in Oregon K-12 education, I have a question for you. You started this off claiming Oregon is 49th among all states, citing the Education Week rankings. In your honest, deepest, heartfelt opinion, do you really believe that Ofregon schools are 49th in the nation with respect to educating students across the board?
And if you believe that, do you have any other citation other than the one you have been using to support your position?
I don't feel that I have been at all. I am glad that rr has been involved in education in Oregon, though. That helps me understand.
To answer your question - in my deepest, heartfelt opinion I firmly believe that Oregon is a D state. We are 49th in the Education Week report and no one seems to be able to understand how that could happen. Our hours of instruction are exceptionally low - VERY, VERY low. I don not know of one district that even complies with the ORS required annual hours of instruction. We have VERY lax state standards for graduation - among the very lowest in the nation. We have a healthy drop out rate. Our achievement gains are very low - for some grade levels the lowest in the nation. We don't even require annual evaluations for teachers each year. We don't test teachers in their subject fields. We don't mentor our new teachers. We require teachers to take class after class that in NO WAY prepares them to teach in an actual classroom. The state of teacher preparation in Oregon is without question deficient to say the very least.
The CIM/CAM disaster is just one example of the unbridled hubris in the state department of education. They hired teachers to write the tests - teachers who did not know the first thing about test writing. The whole program is a complete failure. They should have simply used a recognized national standardized test rather than come up with some half-baked, home-brewed piece of junk that is so unreliable they have to change the benchmark scores, throw out the results, stop the testing, start the testing, use paper pencil, use computers, go back to paper pencil, go back to computers, etc., etc.
The teachers' union has never, ever done anything that actually benefited a student. NOT EVER. There is no incentive pay to complete board certification, become a teacher leader, teach a difficult subject with few qualified teachers, etc., etc. There is only a steady drumbeat of electing Democrats to office and working less and less each year for more and more pay and benefits. That is all we ever get the teachers' union. Everyone gets the same pay for the same 172 days of actual contact with the students, regardless of success or failure.
Are there good teachers in Oregon? Sure. Are there good schools in Oregon? Sure. Is Oregon doing a good job in public education. I don't believe that it is. I have honestly answered your question to the best of my ability. All this arguing about how we might not be 49th - maybe we are really 47th - is plain stupid. If you chose to ignore the report, fine, but don't make up stuff so you can feel good about the state of education in Oregon. Good intentions don't always produce good results. The report is simply a wake-up call for the paying customers of Oregon education to demand better. I am not clear why this is so hard to understand.
What was the PhD in, may I ask?
And a PhD has gotten you where, may I ask?
Creditials is alot like power. If you have to keep saying how much power you have, most likely you have lost most of it without really knowing how much of it has already slipped away.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but when I look at the criteria each was measuring I would go more with the NSF results.
Nevertheless, slightly above the middle is not where I want us to be. But like I said, teacher unions exist in states that have higher scores than ours, so I think we need to focus on other issues. If we have to break the union by further breaking the public school system, it is not worth the cost, in my opinion.
As for Harry, the reason RR shared his education resume is that he was challenged to do so by Jerry. No need to get snarky about someone else's life acheivements. Rancho Rajneesh? Why not select Harvard or Berkley?
Or closer to home, how about our own little Harvard here in Oregon, the highly regarded Reed College? Oh, the school that Steve Jobs didn't bother finishing. What did Steve invent? Products: iPod, iPhone, MAC, and many others. Companies: Apple, NeXT, Pixar.
My point: Degrees are very impressive at cocktail parties (do they even exist anymore?), but less impressive when touted in the comment sections of blogs.
This coming from a guy with a Top 3 MBA. Big woop-tee-doo!
Here is a test for all those PhDs (or MBAs) out there: What are you going to instruct you child to do for his/her future?
1-Get a undergrad degree? (My answer: Yes, no matter what)
2-Get a Grad degree? (no, unless absolutely needed ie JD, MD, etc)
3-Get a PhD degree? (never, if you want to teach, then go out and "do it first, with success". Then any institution will gladly take you on since you have proven yourself successful, and you will not need the tenure, PERS or pitance of a salary, much less the politics of places that require a PhD in order to teach there.
As Henry Kissinger once said about the land of PhDs:
"University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." see: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger
Faculties at most Universities are wastelands filled with left wing lunatics fighting petty political fights. You are from that environment; do people reading your posts really believe that you are happy in your work? Would you honestly tell your children to follow in your footsteps? Most faculty members I have talked with do not advise their kids to follow in their footsteps. And speaking as an offspring of two educators, most Professor's children go on to college, but don't make a career of it in academia.
How about this advice: If you want to be like eagle eye, go get a PhD and tell others how important your resume is. You will lead a happy life, just as eagle eye is doing with his comments on this and other blogs.
"In fact, if you want to be a research manage (sic) in industry or government, you better get a Ph.D."
Yes, just like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did. Go get your PhD; without it you can't be successful in industry. What would industry be without all of those PhDs! LOL
Boy that sure sounds swell. Did you just discover that? Because that entire threory, common sense and honesty was missing in action while the teacher "UNION" backed politicians assaulted our schools with CIMCAM for 15 years.
And who dumps on teachers?
Their own union that's who.
The teacher's union, are so disconnected from the classroom that and even though their own members had strong objections to CIMCAM the union political allegiances supported the reform.
Union heirarchy were regular participants in defending CIMCAM in exchange for the continued political alliance between COSA administrators, the ODE, OSBA and OEA.
The union could have used their power to jettison the refrom fraud many years ago. But the union is not a school advocacy group.
Their a left wing, political action committee and fundraiser for Democrat politicians. The excessive and disproportinate amount of political power the teaher's union has makes them as politicized as any institution, bad for eduation and in need of removal.
So get off the strawman dumping on teachers every time the union driven, rotten politics in our schools is discussed.
Prior to 1973 there were no teahcer's unions in our schools. We, students, teacher, parents and taxpayers, would be better off without them now.
You're also right about the whole CIM/CAM disaster and test writing. When politicians, state bureaucrats, and school administrators try to pad their resumes by doing something "ground breaking," it isn't usually the ground they break. I've never been able to understand why each state has to write its own math or science standards, for example. Math concepts in Oregon are the same as those in other states. Why reinvent the wheel?
I'm undecided about the contact time thing. When students move from high school to college, their contact time drops, but (assuming they're capable) their productivity soars. Yes, they're older and paying for their education. I'd like to see students take more responsibility for their learning and learn how to manage time. That's really what trips so many of them up in the transition from high school to college. Teachers often do such a good job of organizing things that students become almost passive. However, I'm not convinced that district administrators would be willing to take the heat that would come when students don't get the job done and are really held to account.
Along this line, we do need to get high school seniors into the classroom for something close to a full day instead of the one or two hours many spend there now. Too much of that valuable final year is wasted.
Betsy .... I'm not a big fan of OEA, especially when they get involved in matters outside of education. Their support of Measure 49, for example, was mystifying. When I spoke with one of their governmental people about it, she couldn't even come close to a reasonable explanation. Most likely the Dems called in a favor to get them to endorse it.
However, I can't agree about their role in education. Teachers (especially elementary teachers) are often generous and idealistic. They're also somewhat passive about the financial ramifications of the employment relationship. Unions provide a countervailing force that equalizes the bargaining power between the two sides. If we had excellent administrators it might be different. Too many administrators lack management skill, let their egos get in the way, play favorites, and aren't well organized. Most teachers wouldn't agree that things were better prior to 1973, unless they enjoyed being underpaid and powerless.
I'm also not convinced that OEA was all that thrilled about CIM/CAM. Teachers, including yours truly, talked with them about many questionable aspects of it. There was only so much they could do. Most of that effort came under the heading of "management rights" within the contract. Most of us tried to do what we could, when we could, to make it work as well as we could within the structure of a poorly conceived idea without the necessary resources for implementation. I'm sure they occasionally used a "go along to get along" strategy. They might have done it differently in retrospect.
They, the union, did worse than nothing.
And what, they can come out opposing M37 and support M49 but worse than silent on CIMCAM?
Give me a break.
I persoanlly eyewitnessed teacher union hierarchy chippping in with the defense of CIMCAM.
Union heirarchy who behind the scenes admitted CIMCAM was a fraud and that their members were opposed to it.
The OEA and every local is a foul, bought and paid for political machine for liberal democrats.
The OEA and locals also stood and did nothing while teachers were threatened and silenced.
That's a fact.
The OEA is the most powerful entity of it's kind in the State and could have easily dumped CIMCAM. That would have brought embarassment anmd consequences to their political allies and provided fodder for Republican candidates.
So the union sold out students and their own members to protect their politicians and retain their own union power they provide.
It's cold blooded politics first, students and teachers second.
It's cold blooded politics first, students and teachers second."
-----------
I have heard variations of that theme from many teachers. But only in whispers when nobody else could hear them speak, because that Union is powerful.
Which makes eagle eye's question (see 16.1 upthread) so very important. Excessive Union power is harmful to kids. Harmful to teachers. Harmful to Oregon.
How to keep excessive union power in check?
So bash them, blame them, try and tear them down. If you work hard enough at this you can get us all back to the really good old days of Dicken's England.
That was eagle eye's question (16.1 upthread) that I mentioned. Nothing about US wide unions or Dicken's England.
"teachers' union in Oregon". Try and stay on topic.
The topic is not unions in general. Or about the US and unions. Not about Dickens. It is about Oregon. And the teachers' union. And lessening the power of said teachers' union in Oregon.
I want my $.
I want it now.
I am organizing a bloggers' union. All of you will have to pay dues (it's only fair) and those dues will come out of your paychecks. Then, I will use the money to back only conservative, right to life candidates. My main platform will be getting speech recognition on the desktop of every blogger - this typing stuff is so old hat - and unhealthy - and difficult.
Won't you all join me please???
Wait, I forgot, you don't get to decide - this is Oregon. You are in the union now and I will, from now on, speak for you on all matters.
Thanks everyone for your support.
Union Boss Jerry
You take all of the teacher union's political extremes and detriment and wrap it up as our only "imperfect" hope to avoid "Dicken's England"?
Staggering.
Especially with the OEA and affiliates regularly abandoning their members and students in favor of flexing political power.
Your perception and characterization of the teacher's union is about the most patently disingenuous and insulting blog entry I've ever read. Despite your pretense of civility.
Your brand of distortion is the poison that sustains all that is wrong with the politicizing of our most vital institutions such as education.
You are despicable.
Shame on you.
My point...to you and Harry and others, is that tearing the Oregon teachers union down should be considered within a wider context of union decline and the role they play in propping up middle class wages and benefits. I'm not defending specific tactics or policies of the Oregon's teachers union, and don't know enough about them to either defend or condemn them. All unions should be expected to look out for their members interests first, which usually means wages, benefits, and working conditions. We should not expect otherwise.
One public interest is to get the best possible education outcomes for the least possible cost. Putting teachers in a weaker bargaining position by tearing down their union might achieve that goal to an extent, but at a wider public interest cost (middle class decline) that should not be overlooked.
Jerry....you should see the movie Gross Point Blank where there was an attempt to form a contract killers union.
The problem is not necessarily the union. The problem is the collective bargaining system in Oregon that has given unbalanced power to Oregon's education unions. There are only 12 states which allow teachers to strike. Oregon is one of them. The volunteer school boards are no match for the cohesive force of the education unions. As you say, with this power the membership comes first and the students a distant second. The result is the 4th largest class sizes in the U.S., the shortest school year in the U.S., curtailed programs and deferred maintenance on the education infrastructure.
Just one...but no one has stepped forward.
You asked, "Do you see any prospect for change in the laws?" No, not as long as we have a Democratic Governor with veto power. There is symbiotic relationship between the Democratic Party and the Governor's office. Nothing will change until Oregon education is in despair. This probably won't happen, however, because there is just enough intelligence involved to bend our education system and not break it.
You said, "It seems to me Oregonians must be happy or at least satisfied with this situation."
As one editor of an Oregon Newspaper remarked to me, he is amazed at the ability of the education unions in the PR department. The people in Oregon know that there is something wrong in Oregon education, but they have not "connected the dots". Give credit to the Democrats and their unions (or is it, the unions and their Democrats).
You ask, "So, are we not at an impasse?" Yes, I believe we are for quite some time. The students of Oregon are the losers.
Are you a teacher's unions member and/or rep?
You have their rhetoirc down pat.
Nonsense that the Oregon teachers union should be considered within a wider context".
If you want to advocate for your version of social justice go join the Portland Bike Alliance on their regular Friday rides.
The only thing the teacher's union does is prop up their own wages and benefits and feed the liberal democrat etsblishment.
At the detriment of our students teachers and schools.
You are indeed defending the indefensible Oregon's teachers union, and while you admit you "don't know enough about them.
If all this union was about is wages, benefits, and working conditions this discussion would not even be happening.
The OEA doesn't deliver millions to the campaign seasons for wages benefits and working conditions.
They're a left wing political organization, funding by way of paychecks, our left wing democratic party agenda.
Without concern for getting the "best possible education outcomes for the least possible cost" cost at all.
Quite the contrary and the evidence is everywhere. Union's have long used their power and money to gain administrators and school boards who routinely grant them new generous contracts where funding does not even exist. Requiring other school cuts to be made to cover the cost.
Teacher's unions have long ago evaded genuine "bargaining" by their use of millions in tax dollars to buy political allies and guarantee allegainces that often harm our schools.
CIMCAM the mother of all harm.
Tearing down the union, and removing their politics, influence and the conflicts of interest with administrators and boards is the only way to acheive the goal of better schools.
And better schools without the corrupted conflicts will provide the wider public interests for the middle class.
You are intentionally overlooking the extremely detrimental influences the techer's union have on our schools and society because you are a liberal enjoying their support on your broader agenda. Their huge contributions to electing and re-electing your Goldschmidt, Kitzhaber, Kulongoski, Katz and Adams has you ignoring the adverse impact to our schools.
Shame on you.
The Bike Alliance? Please explain. Are there no other choices for me?
Yes...unions support democrats. Why in the world would they do that? Could it be because Republicans have decided to break unions so that their core constituency, big business gets an advantage? Heavens to Betsy (as Donald Rumsfeld might have said).
Okay...make the debate about union busting and I'll oppose you. Make it about needed reforms to improve schools and I'll work with you. Its as simple as that.
That will never happen with the union and liberals controling our schools. It's as simple as that.
Their last round of needed reforms was CIMCAM. A collosal failure and waste.
Does Intel have any unions? How about Costco? Home Depot?
How about Toyota, who's building plants all over the country?
San Antonio http://www.pww.org/article/view/6824/1/264/
Michigan!!!! http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/26/news/detroit.php
Your unions are obsolete, liberal politics cash cow and a detriment to jobs and the economy, period.
Our schools, police, fire and other public services have been brought down by them.
They continue to be the enemies of the state.
Our police, firefighters, teachers, road maintenence workers, VA medical personnel, and so forth are "enemies of the state?" And who is the state? You? Do I detect a narcissistic personality disorder?
Good for you Betsy. You have crossed over well into looney right wingnut land. Enjoy your journey and write me the next time you and your friends win an election somewhere outside of the deep south or Utah.
Is it supposed to be clever to use what I never said and retard the conversation?
Did I call the union member employees enemies or their unions?
Of course it was the unions as you can read again yourself.
I see that you have punted your effort to dfend the public employee unions.
As far as teachers, police, firefighters and road maintenance workers go they don't need defending because no one is attacking them.
They also don't need a union.
I don't feel the need to defend public employee unions. They have plenty of resources to fight for themselves. My concern is more with the wider decline in union membership and the extent to which that has contributed to a decline in the middle class. And to the extent you want to bust a union to improve education in Oregon, then in the immortal works of Louis B. Meyer, "include me out."
Of course and by that attitude you choose to allow schools to languish in mediocrity forever as long as your union keeps control.
Every time a board passes a new contract with compensation increases that aren't funded your union celebrates. Everytime your elected liberals meddle with our schools no one faces any consequences.
Yes the unions have plenty of tax money to elect Democrats. That's the racket. They elect democrats who lavish their salaries and beneifts without regard for anything but maintaining their spoport every election cycle.
2. "Elected liberals," just like elected conservatives, are completely accountable. School board members must answer to the patrons of their districts. State legislators and statewide office holders are accountable to voters in their districts or the state as a whole.
3. Yes, you're correct that the unions do have plenty of tax money to elect Democrats. Given the fact that Dems generally support teachers and Republicans too often use them as political punching bags, would you suggest that they do otherwise? Obviously, a majority of Oregon voters perceive that school performance is at least OK -- or these people would be voted out regardless of how much OEA spends. There was a time (days or yore, long long ago) when moderate Republicans, who respected the efforts that teachers make and were willing to work with the unions, could actually get past a Republican primary in Oregon. That was before ideological purity triumphed over actually GETTING ELECTED. I know it's a wacky way to think, but mightn't it be a good idea for the R's to think about trying this strategy again?
That's abald faced lie. I have eyewitnessed and read about, in multiple districts, the passing of compensation increases with them knowing full well funding would be short.
2. There is no accountability in education at all. Zero.
No one is held accountable by anyone.
Just as no one was held accountable for the Portland Strategic Plan or held accountable for CIMCAM lies.
3. Teahcer unions take plenty of money from theie members to elect Democrats. Given the fact that Dems always fork over money they can't afford. Republicans often use the unions, deservingly, as political punching bags. They are quite admirring of techers themselves. Moreso than democrats who forever screw with the classrooms.
I suggest we dump the public employee unions entirely.
Your phony idea that "these D people would be voted out regardless of how much OEA spends" is ludirous. The newspapers all lie like you.
There was a time not too long ago when we had strong Republicans and no teacher unions, 1972. Your union hack BS that morphs union oppostion into teacher opposition is typical crap.
It is easy and justified to respect the efforts that teachers make while condemning their unions.
Pandering to the unions has undermined our schools.
There is no "working with the unions". Capitualtion is it.